Tarpley on Guns and Butter —

"ISIS benefits as Turkey bombs Kurdish fighters."




This is Guns and Butter. 

"I see a lot of people making the mistake, they think, 'Oh, the president is always in command.' That's absolutely ridiculous, right? We see a case where Obama has explicitly repudiated a policy and Turkey and significant parts of the US apparatus, i.e. Allen, are trying to keep that policy going. In other words, the No-Fly Zone and the — and the safe haven for terrorists, right?"

I'm Bonnie Faulkner. Today on Guns and Butter, Webster Tarpley. Today's show, "ISIS benefits as Turkey bombs Kurdish fighters." Webster Tarpley is an economic historian, author and lecturer. He is author of
Against Oligarchy; Surviving The Cataclysm —  Your Guide To The Worst Financial Crisis In Human History; 9/11 Synthetic Terror  — Made In The USA; Obama — The Unauthorized Biography and co-author of George Bush The Unauthorized Biography. He is a leader and activist with United Front Against Austerity and the Tax Wall Street Party. On today's program we discussed the safe haven or no-fly zone in northern Syria on the Turkish border, the three different Kurdish groups who are fighting ISIS terrorists, and the duplicitous role of Turkey in the conflict.


BONNIE FAULKNER: Webster Tarpley, welcome!

WEBSTER TARPLEY: Thank you so much for inviting me.

BONNIE FAULKNER: I have read that the Kurds now control most of Turkey's 560 mile border with Syria,  except for a small 68-mile corridor between the Syrian border towns of Kobane and A'zaz, west of the Euphrates River. You have written that, "Gen. John Allen and Turkish president Erdogan are struggling desperately to keep this 68-mile wide door open." What is significant about the 68-mile corridor between Turkey and Syria?

WEBSTER TARPLEY: Well the 68-mile corridor, the 68-mile wide window is absolutely critical because this is how the brutal butchers and rapists of ISIS, right?  this monstrous operation against human civilization as we've known it, this is how they get their supplies.  The supply lines for ISIS come out of Turkey, and that includes a flow of recruits, dupes, fanatics, psychotics and so forth who come to — to join them.  And these people are truly the scum of the earth.  You've also got ammunition, all the logistics, the sinews of war. You've also got the ability of ISIS to send things out through that 68-mile window.  And we've just been told by Thierry Meyssan and some other people in the Middle East that the president of Turkey, this man Erdogan — Erdogan's son is actually the principal wholesaler of oil stolen by ISIS in northern Iraq primarily and then shipped through tank trucks and — and other means, and then sold out through the Turkish market and this is several hundred thousand barrels of oil per day.

So if that window were closed, ISIS would die.  ISIS is an Army like any other.  It's a CIA secret army, of course, it has these horrendous features that we at least alluded to already, maybe we talk more, but principally, if you cut their supply line, this thing will wither on the vine. So anybody who ever comes and says, "it's time to send US forces, ground troops to Syria to fight ISIS," or "to Iraq to fight ISIS", this is absolutely idiotic!  All you need to do is close the border between Turkey and Syria and ISIS will die. They'll have no recruits, no ammunition, no income, and they'll be completely cut off from the outside world. Even all of their fabled computer savvy and computer expertise will be of no value once they're cut off, because nobody will be able to get there. And the fact that this is so points to the complicity — it's really, it's beyond complicity —  it's practically identity between the Turkish fraction led by President Erdogan now, and Prime Minister Davutoğlu, former Foreign Minister. So Erdogan and Davutoğlu are people who support ISIS. They run ISIS. They tell ISIS what to do. And how could it be otherwise? Because these are the people who control the logistical supply lines which ISIS must have or perish. So Erdogan is in a position to dictate to ISIS, more or less, what they should do next. His son as I said is a key man in the marketing of the oil to get money. That has to be money laundered and so forth as the proceeds come back. There's also Erdogan's daughter who works as far as we can tell in a hospital for wounded terrorists just north of the Syrian Turkish border and she's there looking after ISIS, Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, all of the fanatics and psychotics that have been swept up across the Middle East. When they come back broken up, and after they've been defeated by the Kurds in particular, she — she tries to get them to a point where they can be sent back to the battlefield. So, again, if you simply left this to the dynamics on the ground, the Kurdish forces would have, I think, been able in the past month or so — say the month of — July to August, 2015, would have been fairly within reach, let's say — a struggle to be sure but within reach — the Kurdish forces and that is the PKK Turks to some extent that are more active over in the East by Iraq, but then you have the YPG Kurds, and they are active in Syria, right? The YPG of the ones you've seen gallantly defeating ISIS in the city of Kobanê, you've seen the women fighters on the YPG side, the Kurds, defeating these —  these barbarian monsters of — of ISIS. So, those Kurds had an opportunity, I would say certainly, to close the 68-mile gap. In other words, close that door.
To look at the map, and you can see the map on the Tarpley.net. If you scroll down Tarpley.net to the last week in July and then the first week in August, more or less, if you look in their you're going to find a three-part exposé we did about what was going on there. And the lead off of that three-part series is a wonderful map that we made that shows the ISIS supply lines coming down through through this hole in the — window in the border of the 68-mile gap. But it also shows that the Kurds have closed just about every other point along the border including this hard-fought city of Kobanê, and others. And then even to the west of the 68-mile gap, between that and the Mediterranean, the Kurds have pretty much got that sealed as well, either the Kurds or the Syrian Arab army of Assad. Between the two of them they've closed virtually all of this. So by the time we got to the end of July, let's say about the — oh, the 23rd, 24th of July. We had the following situation: the Kurds were in the process of closing the 68-mile gap. At that point ISIS would been cut off from supplies. Doomed.  AND, even on top of that there was a Kurdish spearhead that was approaching the city of Raqqa, the capital of this insane caliphate. So it would have been a crushing one-two punch — supply lines cut, capital captured, and at that point these psychotics and murderers would've dispersed across the world I suppose. But that would've been the end of them.

And this is precisely where Gen. John Allen comes into play, right? He decides that he is the ISIS Czar, he works in the State Department, appointed by Skull & Bones Kerry, Obama — had to accept him. Who knows what Obama thinks of this guy — we'll say a few words about the White House reactions which are all to repudiate this stuff.  But at the time, when the supply line was about to be cut, the border closed, and the terrorist capital captured, we get this thing on the 24th-25th-26th of July, what? 3 weeks ago, huh? And this is where Allen comes out and says "guess what?" And he leaks it. "Guess what we have now decided together with Turkey that were going to have a safe zone in northern Syria", right?  And the safe zone happens to be precisely the gap, right? The 68-mile gap. So that will keep that open. It will be a safe haven for terrorists, defended by the Turkish Air Force, and at the same time we were told the Turks are going to stop helping ISIS, and they're going to fight them — they're going to bomb them. Well, we just found out the statistics of something like 500 airstrikes to three. In other words the Turks have launched 500 airstrikes against Kurds, especially YPG Kurds because those are the best fighters in the area, right? They have proven again and again that they can defeat ISIS, right? Thereby deflating this carefully prepared myth of invincibility that ISIS had enjoyed.  And at the same time the airstrikes against ISIS by the by the Turkish Air Force have been negligible two or three, just some some window dressing. All in all a big nothing.

So this — this is been an act of tremendous treachery. When this was leaked — it was leaked in the Washington Post, and I think the New York Times, too, on 27th of July of this year, and, well, the White House immediately said "No". The Obama White House said "this is not anything we are doing". And there would've been I think a more vigorous reaction but, you see, Obama was out of town at the time. And this is a very important feature of how this guy Allen operates, right? Most people have no idea whatsoever who this Allen is. He is the US ISIS Czar, the State Department's roving ambassador to every country in the anti-ISIS coalition, including Turkey, including Saudi Arabia. And in — in practice Allen — perhaps he's got a pension deal. I don't know. If — it might be the case, but what he does is he brings the outrageous demands of terrorist controllers in Turkey and Saudi Arabia and he dumps them on Obama's desk and he says, "Now you have to do what these Middle Eastern butchers want you to do", right? What the Saudi monarchy wants you to do, what Erdogan and Davutoğlu want you to do and indeed the Moslem brotherhood, right? The common denominator of both of those.  

"So you pick up the Washington Post here Monday, July 27, "Turkey and US plan safe zone in Syria". And it's according to US and Turkish officials. Well, the White House said, "No", it's not true, during the course of the day. But that has not stopped [former Gen. John] Allen. Allen has kept rolling, and it's obvious one of the things is, Obama doesn't dare fire him because if he did Allen would then come out and pursue the other goal that he has, which is to torpedo the Iran Nuclear Accord. And when we're talking about Allen of course we're referring to this clique of seditious disgruntled generals — defeated generals — in many cases disgraced — disgraced like Petraeus, right? For adultery. Disgraced — uh, like Allen, you know? He had all these thousands of emails going back and forth between himself and Jill Kelly, the "garrison belle"of the Central Command in Tampa, right? She's a Lebanese woman calling <laughs> herself Jill Kelly. So he was kic[ked out of consideration for commander of EUCOM] — Skull & Bones Kerry brought him back. So if Obama says, "Allen, you're fired", Allen will turn around and say, "I'm gonna go on the Sunday shows and say how you sold America out to the Iranians", right? Because this is what they want. And behind Allen again the outside man is Petraeus, and behind Petraeus we have his financial backer Henry Kravis of the — he's like a multibillionaire and the head of Kohlberg Kravis Roberts, a Wall Street counting house. So that's sort of — sort of what it is, a desperate maneuver to keep the supply lines open, to keep ISIS alive. Their goal is to save ISIS, not to destroy it. ISIS of course is a CIA secret Army of a rather traditional type that we got to know during the Cold War, sort of like the Contras but with special features."


BONNIE FAULKNER: I'm speaking with economic historian and author Webster Tarpley. Today's show, "ISIS benefits as Turkey bombs Kurdish fighters." I'm Bonnie Faulkner. This is Guns and Butter.

So are you saying that this safe haven or no-fly zone in northern Syria is giving cover for Turkey to bomb Kurdish fighters who've made all these military gains against ISIS terrorists?

WEBSTER TARPLEY: Yes, exactly. This is a very serious matter. The most important, sort of, scenario to understand goes like this: right now the most effective ground force to fight ISIS, to humiliate them, to drive them back in a bubble, to wreck this myth of invincibility, right? that — if you listen to the American news media you'd think ISIS are 10 feet tall, with magical powers, they're unstoppable, vulnerable, invincible, or whatever else, right? They're a gaggle of superheroes. And instead these people are a rag-tag collection of psychotics, right? So, how does it work? You can see when they attacked the Iraqi Army. Why did they defeat the Iraqi army? Because the Saudi's or somebody like this have bribed all the officers so the officers run away and the recruits are — just like any Army, they don't know what to do and then they can be — they can be swept away. So the goal is — is to preserve ISIS, right? To keep them going. And therefore this is the policy pursued by this — by this group that we've — we've talked about.


BONNIE FAULKNER: Well, from where did the ISIS terrorists originate, and who trained and armed them, and for what purposes?


WEBSTER TARPLEY: Well, uh, the ISIS force that you see now is a kind of a catch basin for all the patsies — again psychotics, fanatics, mercenaries, double agents, whatever you want, in — in the Middle East and it's something that the US and Britain have been working on for quite a while in the sense that it goes back to slogans that you may remember from 10 years ago, the Anbar Awakening or the Sunni Awakening. It's clear that the tactic used by the US to save face, I guess, in the Iraq war involved, instead of having all of Iraq lined up against the US which would've been a loser, and they were losing pretty badly for a while under the guidance of Petraeus, they said "well,  we'll — we'll provoke a Civil War between Sunnis and Shiites and then that will relieve the pressure on the US invading and occupying forces. So that's what they did and after that you see that there's a — there's a force of people left over, right?, of fighters. So by, y'know by 2008, 2009 it was clear that that — that group was there and it was available for use, and indeed you had to use it. So a lot of those people ended up through various mediations, they got into Libya and they were the rebel force that was then hurled against Gaddafi and after they had done their work of destruction and murder in Libya, there was then an airlift and a sealift that went from Benghazi, Libya to İncirlik, Turkey, the airbase, or to the ports of, let's say, the Southwest part of Turkey, I think Alexandretta is one of them. So th — a lot of terrorists were coming in off boats, they were housed for a time in Turkish hotels and they were then sent across the border into Syria, right? to become the terrorist rebels of Syria, the death squads which I denounced in the interview on Russia Today in November 2011, almost 4 years ago, that this was not a rebellion of Syrian: these were death squads that had been sent in from the outside, and they were they were already massacring women and children. I remember a hospital in the city of Homz in an Alowite neighborhood where a woman doctor, very well educated, said well I'm going to have to leave and go home now and pick up my children but I'm afraid I'm going to be killed by a sniper, because the snipers get up on rooftops and they — they kill people. They shoot them all through the back of their car they try to kill the women who are — the mothers who are trying to pick up children and they kill the children too. And she said, "all we want from Assad is tanks, infantry, we want government sharpshooters on every roof, and so forth. So the idea of a monstrous force that slaughters women and children, this is not new. So you can see how it's been moved around, right? This is like a chess piece. So at a certain point in the Syrian conflict when the going against Assad got pretty rough for these terrorists,  because Hezbollah had come in and other aid was being was being delivered, these people were then rolled up and there was even an announcement made — I wish I could find it in some newspapers —  maybe somebody wants to help me whos got a really good — IT line on some of this stuff — there was actually an agreement made among the terrorist rebels of Syria that some of them would continue to fight Assad but that ISIS would go to the other end, right? They'd go all the way to the northeast of Syria, or as far east as they could go, and they would occupy that territory and that's what they wanted. ISIS did not want to fight Assad. That was too dangerous. They wanted to go and commit atrocities against civilians, in other words, sharia law and other monstrous impositions that they — they tried to impose. And that's what they did. And then at a certain point as I say this whole thing was moved into Iraq, the Iraqi officers were bribed, the officers ran away first according to all accounts, that continues the tradition of bribery. The US had bribed the Iraqi officers in the first Gulf War under George Bush the elder and in the Iraq war 2003 and so forth under George Bush the younger. So of those advantages were put together to create this force of ISIS. Right now we have this — psychopath Baghdadi, the so-called caliph.  I think he's sort of a stand-in. He's like a regent.  He's not the real thing. The real caliph is Erdogan.  You have to remember, the Turkish Sultan was the caliph of Islam up until shortly after 1920 or thereabouts, right? after World War I. When the Ottoman Empire collapsed and there was no more Turkish Sultan then this question of who's the caliph became hard to answer, right?  and under Ataturk in Turkey they didn't want to hear anything about about caliphs. But right now given the fact that Erdogan and Davutoğlu are — their adherents of what is called the neo-Ottoman school. In other words they believe in the restoration of the Ottoman Empire, so they would like to have as much as they can, right? Remember the Ottoman Empire was Syria, it was Iraq, it was Saudi Arabia, it was everything all the way down to the — to Yemen.  That was all the Ottoman Empire. So that's — that is in effect what — what Erdogan seems to want. So, he is a madman.  He's as mad as a hatter — as mad as a March hare. And Davutoğlu is the ideologue who tells Erdogan that all these things are indeed written and they're gonna happen, that they're in the magic — book of fate. So this is a complete monstrosity.


BONNIE FAULKNER:  Who is supporting the Kurds in their fight with ISIS?

WEBSTER TARPLEY:  Well, the US has been at least coordinating at a fairly modest level with the Kurdish fighters. Now when we say Kurds, we have to watch out. There are three kinds of Kurds at least and because they they been in different countries they've also tended to grow apart, so they're not so homogeneous, right? But there are three. The first one once again is the YPG. Now those you admired on television last summer when they successfully defeated, right?, in a head-on pitched battle, defeated ISIS, right? What everybody said could never be done at the city of Kobane, and Kobane is precisely an example of these border crossing towns where it was so important to seal that particular supply line for ISIS, and you'll also remember that the Turks did everything to help ISIS win. They they allowed ISIS to use Turkey as a privileged sanctuary, in other words a safe haven for terrorists, but this time on on the Turkish side. They had ISIS artillery firing across the border into Syria to hit the yard the Kurds, and when that didn't work they even got Turkish tanks to line up and start taking pot shots at the Kurdish fighters. So that was about as bad as it could be. These YPG people are probably the best, right? Those are the ones with the women in the front line, so these are heroic people.  They've certainly staked a claim to a nation of their own. Then you have the PKK Kurds. This is not quite so pretty. These people are rather brutal. They're Marxist-Leninists. A couple of days ago two women thought to be close to the PKK took a terrorist attack on the US consulate I guess. The PKK, you could say, they have women fighters too, but this is more like these assertive suicide missions. The ones we have the women actually organically in these units like that's what we saw at Kobane, and  I think that tended to capture the imagination of the world. So that's a great thing. PKK again is not so nice, but then again they are a significant force and there had been a dialogue with it been a peace negotiation between the Turkish government in Ankara and the PKK and that of course was immediately aborted as soon as it became clear that the vast majority of these airstrikes was going really against the PKK and also against the YPG so that's the — that's the PKK, and again they tend to be inside Turkey, again this area of southeast Anatolia in other words the extreme southeast corner of Turkey where it comes up against Iraq in particular. That's the area where the PKK is the strongest and a lot of the bombings are inside Turkey. In these areas the Turkish Air Force bombs its own territory and then you have the government of the northern Iraqi Kurdistan I guess the Kurdish province and this is the government in Erbil, and that's the Barzani family. Barzani — it's a sort of a hereditary post of the "ethnarch", the leader of the Kurdish ethnic group inside the Ottoman Empire — the Barzani family have that — and they are unfortunately quite treacherous and in some ways the idea is that this oligarchical family looks out for itself exclusively and not for any Kurdish interest. They certainly don't care about YPG Kurds. Indeed they hate them and fear them because both the YPG and the PKK are more egalitarian and more modern really than this this essentially dictatorship of the Barzani family. The other thing we have to add, Middle East sources always say that the Israeli role is very big in this Kurdish province of northern — northern Iraq. So those of the three principal groups politically and  militarily the best is the YPG then the PKK and then Barzani away behind.


BONNIE FAULKNER:  Well then, who is supporting the Kurds in their fight against ISIS?


WEBSTER TARPLEY: Well, figure the US is is helping them to some extent. The US is giving them airstrikes, probably logistical support. I think intelligence, too, telling them who is moving where and and things like this.  So that was working rather well and you could say that by the middle of July ISIS was in very big trouble and that's the point where Erdogan springs into action as he had two years before read. Two years before he came out with this report saying "oh! look at this! This is terrible!  Assad has gassed these people at Ghouta and the world almost went to general war over that. The story on that one from inside sources in the Middle East is that the British figured out that this was a fraud and more important than the fraud they decided that that was not good for her Majesty's government. So they essentially set up the situation where the British House of Commons voted against the war — very useful, very good. Most welcome at the time, but based again in, y'know, a kind of a secret intelligence analysis and after that that's when Obama began to get cold feet.


BONNIE FAULKNER:  I'm speaking with economic historian and author Webster Tarpley. Today's show: "ISIS benefits as Turkey bombs Kurdish fighters".  I'm Bonnie Faulkner. This is Guns and Butter.

I think that what is most confusing is the US support for both the Kurds fighting ISIS and for ISIS itself. Now you have talked about the origins of ISIS now I remember when they first marched into northern Iraq 1000 of them and it took over Mosul, which had a 30,000 standing army that just a put down their arms and walked away. So — so the US is supporting both ISIS and fighting ISIS. It doesn't make any sense.


WEBSTER TARPLEY: Well, it doesn't make sense because in some ways these are two parts of the US government, right?  In other words, you have a a CIA policy, I would say which is the most rotten, which is working to support ISIS. ISIS is a CIA secret Army. The goal that they have with ISIS is, as you can see from some of the patterns that emerged over the past three weeks, they want to move ISIS east, move ISIS towards Iran, first of all, right? Use ISIS as a secret army to attack Iran, and that goes together with the Petraeus-Allen commitment to — to torpedo the nuclear record. And then after that turn north and head for the Russian border. Head for Chechnyà [or, Chechénya], right? This area, troubled area, Grozny the capital and that entire ethnic labyrinth of the Caucasus, and trans-Caucasus would be a playground where ISIS could cause tremendous damage to Russia. That's the ultimate purpose of ISIS. So the parts of the US government that support ISIS are the dirtiest parts, right? The intelligence community. If you look at the Pentagon, interestingly enough, there's a — there's a different view, on the idea being that the Pentagon is glad to work with the YPG. They think that they perform well, they deliver and — and there's also the question of of of the arrogance and impudence of the Turks.

But generally, before we leave this topic you can see: it's two sides of the US government supporting two different propositions. The entire federal government is completely factionalized. Otherwise how can you have Allen saying we now have — or leaking, right? as he doesn't come out and say it. He has that leaked to the stenographers of the Washington Post, Karen DeYoung and Liz Sly here are the ones telling us on July 27 that is going to be a joint US Turkish safe zone and no-fly zone  in northern Syria according to US and Turkish officials. So that's — that's the —that's one group. But then there are the groups that say "No", in a particular we've heard from the other group last week and I would just rather than me trying to give you all the details, go to Tarpley.net and I talk a lot about a signal piece of very important development. It's a signal piece of the kind we used to have in the Cold War. In other words, you read Fox News and you come across this article has nothing to do with the editorial policy of Fox News. It's something that people in the Pentagon wanted to get into the public eye, and they did it. And the idea being that they're going to tell you there what happened on a particular July 24. This is the moment when this entire current phase began. The idea is that on July 22 or 23rd Obama, according to Middle East sources,  Obama called Erdogan of Turkey on the phone and said "IF YOU DON'T STOP SUPPORTING ISIS I WILL KICK YOU OUT OF NATO", and then he added I want you to torpedo the Turkish stream gas pipeline. And so you can see it — it's — it sounds authentic. It's a mixed bag, right? So —  and indeed as far as we know the Turkish stream has been called off Erdogan under pressure from his own generals as well as from the — from the US. So that — remember there was South Stream. That was torpedoed. Then there was going to be Turkish Stream, and now that one has been torpedoed. But that's — that's a longer-term issue. It's a very serious matter but a longer-term issue. Right now we've got the sight of — imagine Obama telling Erdogan, you've got to essentially stop supporting ISIS or or I'm gonna force you out of — out of the Western alliance.


Now the day after, in other words on the 24th of July approximately this is when Obama went off to Kenya. The modus operandi of Allen is, he strikes when the president is out of town.  If you go back to December of last year around December 15 or so this was when Obama was in Australia, and it's at that point that Congressman Royce of the House Foreign Relations Committee comes up and says "We're having a policy review and we may decide to bomb Assad." And then Obama was asked in Brisbane — this is the famous "Brisbane No" —  Obama was asked, "Do you have an active program to overthrow Assad", and the answer from Obama was "No! We do not have a program to overthrow Assad." So that sort of deflated that little coup d'état. So whenever the president goes out of town. So it means including now on what happened on 24 July was like this: Obama flies off to Kenya, Allen gets on the phone with Erdogan saying, "What are we going to do? This is a disaster. He is threatening you. We'll declare that the Turkish government will now allow the United States Air Force to use the Incirlik airbase which is right close to ISIS country, right? in southern Turkey. We'll allow this to go on, airplanes, drones, whatever you want. The Turkish government is gonna start bombing ISIS. And of course, we saw what that fraud was, right?  They do one attack on ISIS, a pin prick, and then 500 on the Kurds. So this is a complete lie. It's a complete bait and switch, as I said at the time. And then this came out in the press on Monday, July 27 and the White House briefing, that they said "No, we are not doing any of this." But then what happened on the afternoon of the 24th, in the midst of all this? There is a — a central command — emanation, and you have the name of it in front of you, right?, this so —

BONNIE FAULKNER:  Are you talking about the Combined Air in —

WEBSTER TARPLEY: The Combined Air — go ahead

BONNIE FAULKNER:  The Combined Air And Space Operations Center?

WEBSTER TARPLEY:  The Combined Air And Space Operations Center, which nobody had ever heard of.  I mean, this was secret.  At least as far as I know, this was secret. A Turkish officer walks into this thing — this is the command center for the entire air operation in Syria and close by — Iraq. So, guy comes in, this Turkish liaison officer comes in and he says "You have 10 minutes to get all your planes south of Mosul!" In other words, you gotta get all the planes way south of the Turkish-Syrian border. So get out of our airspace! We're claiming it. So there was a lot of bad blood there. And when the Turks started bombing, it was expected that they bomb ISIS, as they said. But they don't do that. They go and bomb the YPG and the problem with the YPG is, you've  got US Special Forces with them. So US military almost got killed when these Turkish bombers come in. And they complain, right? ”We didn't know their call signs", "we didn't know their frequencies", "we couldn't talk to them", "there was no coordination",  no nothing. And then the bottom line is, "We were outraged!" US military officers, loyal ones — not like Allen — loyal officers say,  "We were outraged that Turkey was treating us in this way." So there's a lot of rage going back and forth. And then you see soon after that, after this Fox article, then on the weekend Germany AND the US, with the implicit backup of many more NATO countries, say to Turkey "You don't need these Patriot missile batteries, because you're attacking the Kurds, which you shouldn't be doing, you're attacking the Kurds and not ISIS, so therefore were not we're not going to help you" with a antimissile or antiaircraft defense.


So this — it's a big struggle. And of course our heroes of the controlled corporate media, the mainstream media, the presstitutes, whatever we can call them, they have been absolutely out to lunch on this issue, except for this one article on Fox News. And again I guarantee you that article is not really written by Fox News: that was written by somebody in the Pentagon who was the factionalizing against Allen. One of the things we have to remember about ISIS Czar Allen is that he's widely hated by his military colleagues, right? The other generals and flag officers and admirals hate Allen. So just the fact that he's there with his machinations means that there's — there's going to be a — a backlash against him.


BONNIE FAULKNER: What you make of the bombings within Turkey, including the US Embassy?


WEBSTER TARPLEY: Well, that's inevitable. In other words if — if Erdogan and Davutoğlu say "Well we — we had a dialogue, a peace process going with the PKK Kurds in particular. But now we can't do that anymore. We — we're sick and tired of that. So there can be no peace talks. There can be no peace. Well, at that point the fanatical supporters of the PKK come forward, and they say, "Well then, we're gonna bomb the US Embassy", because at that point in their mind they see — they're obviously going to think whatever Erdogan does is approved by the US. And this of course is — this is a very stupid mistake to make. I see a lot of people making the mistake — they think, "Oh, the president is always in command." That's absolutely ridiculous, right? We see a case where Obama has explicitly repudiated a policy and Turkey and significant parts of the US apparatus, i.e. Allen, are trying to keep that policy going, in other words the no-fly zone and the — and the safe haven for terrorists.  An American president has virtually no power unless he is willing to fight for it.  Obama has been on the whole a disaster. He's been a little bit better lately though, and I — I would urge people to look at it that way. Right now it does not make a lot of sense to attack Obama. You want to attack Allen and indeed there's a campaign #fireAllen4ISIS #fireAllen4ISIS. That's the ticket out of this. In other words if you want to know, it sounds like this thing is a — is a labyrinth, right?  It's a Byzantine labyrinth of intrigue.  Yeah!  <laughs> It's coming out of Istanbul — Constantinople, right? So more Byzantine than this you can't get. So the way though to deal with it is you gotta subsume all of that with your own programmatic thrust and in this case that's "Fire Allen!" Get Allen out of there, and don't let this happen. People then say "Oh, come on. Obama — we know he's a coward. But couldn't you just fire this guy?  Couldn't somebody come out and say that he wants to spend more time with his family?  It's clear that Allen has got a blackmail and extortion racket going, and it goes like this: Allen says to Obama "You gonna fire me?  go ahead and do it.  I'll be on the Sunday shows and I'll denounce YOU for selling out to Iran." And this is — again, this is his other goal, right? He wants to have — . The US, Iran and indeed the six great powers, actually seven because Europe is one of them. So the five permanent members of the Security Council, plus Germany, plus European Union have all approved this Iran nuclear deal. The one that is publicly against that is Israel, right? Netanyahu. But Erdogan HATES this accord, right?  Erdogan is a MILLION percent against this, because he says "Wait a minute! The US essentially organizing the Middle East together with Iran? Wait a minute! I'm the neo-Ottoman Emperor of Turkey! Turkey is going to be the center, not Iran!" So there's a huge freak out on that, too, and you often hear that Saudi Arabia doesn't like the Iran nuclear deal, right? Qatar, all these things.  Wait a minute! Turkey is absolutely fanatically opposed. So this would be another good reason to fire Allen. But Obama's — he's afraid to do at this point, because he thinks that that would kill the Iran nuclear accord. So this is the reality of Washington at the present time.


BONNIE FAULKNER:  I'm speaking with economic historian and author Webster Tarply. Today's show, "ISIS benefits as Turkey bombs Kurdish fighters".  I'm  Bonnie Faulkner. This is Guns and Butter.

So why is Gen. John Allen against the Iran nuclear accord?  He wants to attack Iran? Is that what you're saying?


WEBSTER TARPLEY:  Well this is a clique of neocons, right? These people, when you when — you look at the neocons, right, as they were under George Bush the younger, or as as they are today in the advisory board of Jeb — Jeb Bush, he's got all those guys, right? all the discredited neocon warmongers, the madmen, the ones who told us it was a cakewalk they said you'd be welcome that it wouldn't cost you anything it was that entire litany of insane promises, those guys are still there and they have an emanation in the military world. And we have to remember it's Petraeus, and Allen. This is the center of what has to be defeated. Allen on the inside but remember, Allen is a disgraced military officer, right? He was sending these emails back and forth with this the socialite, right? This is very, very unsavory. And Petraeus, doubly disgraced, right? Once with the mistress, Paula Broadwell, to whom he gave US state secrets, and the other side of it and is that, well, he is an adulterer, right? And military officers are not supposed to do that, all evidence to the contrary. This is frowned on. So two disgraced and dishonored generals, with all that money behind them and then you'd have to say, who are the other members of that clique? This is hard to answer because obviously they don't like to identify themselves. This is precisely if — if you wanted to be politically active in the United States today and be serious about it you would help find the other members of this Petraeus or Allen-Petraeus, or Petraeus-Allen clique. They may indeed be sponsored by Skull & Bones Kerry. That's certainly how Allen was brought in. There's a — there's a Wall Street Journal article from April 2014 where the argument is Kerry — Secretary of State John Kerry and Samantha Power — the humanitarian bomber at the United Nations — are not happy because they have not been able to start bombing Syria, they want to do that and therefore they're going to bring in Petraeus, and another guy General Keane. He used to be the Deputy Chief of Staff, right? The number two military person of the United States. Keane is very closely connected to the Kagan family, Kimberly Kagan — that's the Institute for the Study of War, or the "promotion of war". Donald Kagan, Frederick Kagan, Frederick is the husband of Kimberly, Robert Kagan at Brookings, right?  So, it's American Enterprise Institute, Institute for the Study of War and Brookings Institution. And so that's the group. And then some months after that, in the late summer of 20 — 2014 now, this character Allen was put in as the ISIS Czar.


So the media are not interested, if you say, "Is there a seditious clique of officers in the Pentagon, who are blackmailing Obama?" <laughs> CBS news is not to report this. So this is up to us.


But I would say to people, "If you're — if you have a brain, stop attacking Obama.  Find out some of these things. This is where the action is. Because we just had a coup d'état! This little caper, right? of the weekend of the 24th, 25th and 26th of July, that was a putsch. That was an action by generals to seize power for themselves, Allen and others. The one that I think may also be a part of it is this guy, Gen. Breedlove. This is US Air Force Gen. Philip Breedlove who is the NATO commander, right? That's an important post. You betcha! And he's been warmongering against Russia —  he's — he's a certifiable madman. He's the one with, y'know, "let's send — let's send heavy weapons into Ukraine",  "let's send — let's put US forces on the ground in Ukraine", "let's have maneuvers in Ukraine" — all insane. Breedlove in the week after this coup —  in other words, in the week that started on Monday, July 27, Breedlove was interviewed by Gwen Ifill of Public Television and she lobbed a few softballs at him, and one was, interestingly or usefully, "Is there a no-fly zone? Is there a safe haven?" And Breedlove says, "No. There is none." And at that point she said, "Now let's go on to the next question." That I think is a a deception by Breedlove, because he knows that the White House doesn't want it but he also knows that some of his co-factioneers, I think, are are in favor of it.


So these are all things that people really need to be more sophisticated about, right? And stop with this eternal litany of Obama, y'know, is bringing on the end of the world. Before you attack Obama, make very sure that you are not missing out on people in the immediate entourage who are much, much worse than Obama, right? Who — who deserve to be attacked a whole lot more. Because otherwise what you doing is counterproductive.


BONNIE FAULKNER: Has Pres. Putin of the Russian Federation weighed in on the Turkish Syrian con —conflict, specifically with regard to this no-fly safe haven?


WEBSTER TARPLEY:  I don't know if he said said anything about the no-fly zone or safe haven <laughs> but there's a very big intervention and thank you for for asking this. About, what? 10 days ago, two weeks ago, we got this report that Putin had called in the Turkish ambassador, and this was described as a lengthy and heated exchange. And one of the questions was, "Who is responsible for the problems in Syria?"  Putin said, "Turkey is."which I think is true. And the Turkish ambassador said, "No, you are.", you, Putin. And of course Assad, right? "You're responsible" because he helped Assad. At which point Putin is reliably reported, I think — Putin is reported to have said, "In that case, tell your President Erdogan that he can go to hell with his ISIS terrorists, because what I Putin will do —  I will prepare a big Stalingrad." That's it big, big Stalingrad, right? No two ways about it —  a big Stalingrad for all of those terrorists who are backed by Saudi Arabia and Turkey who are presently in northern Syria, and the also he suggested that one step on the way to that would be for Russia to break diplomatic relations with Turkey, and that China and Iran would be supporting Russia in this action. So that was an ultimatum, right? Stop supporting ISIS terrorism. It's actually interesting. Erdogan has now gotten that ultimatum from two people — from Obama and from Putin, right? It's remarkable. So maybe that means that Erdogan may fall soon, right? Because normally when you get into a position where you get the White House and the Kremlin against you with that vehemence that's not a good a argument for your — your longevity.


Now just I just have to point out about this. Some people claim that this — this report, that it never happened. And indeed, the official spokesman of Putin is this guy are Dimitri Peskoff. So he was asked at an official point, "Are you confirming that Putin made this ultimatum to the Turkish ambassador?"  "It never happened," says Peskoff.  Well, what's he going to say? This was a nondenial-denial. Peskoff said, "We never said that Erdogan is a dictator." Yeah, but wait a minute — that was the least of it, right? There was the stuff about "Go to hell! Your supporting ISIS terrorists", right? "We'll get you with a big Stalingrad. We'll have China and Iran on our side.", right? This was much more. So this was a very narrow nondenial-denial. Later in the same press conference Peskoff said — "And by the way reports that Russia is going to send troops to the Middle East are not true." And you have to know that in the past, what? Month and a half? there have been reports even including the unit names that Russia is preparing a couple of paratroop divisions and other forces to go into northern Syria, right? to do precisely that. To arrange a massacre and a big Stalingrad against these these terrorists that are there. Perfectly feasible so I think that nondenial-denial, followed by a nondenial-denial about "are you ready to intervene" because I think they are, it's like it's sort of like this? If — if nobody's talking about it really and the spokesman for the Kremlin comes out and says "No, we're not considering this alternative of sending troops into the Middle East", I think that means you better watch out because we might. That's the way I read that one.

And then I just as it is another piece of evidence this and more recently within the past week there is a report about a conference between Russian Foreign Minister Lavroff and the Saudi Foreign Minister. Now this is the new one — this is not Prince Faisal: this is the new Saudi Foreign Minister [Adel al-]Jubeir. Used to be ambassador here in Washington. So Jubeir is reading a statement and <laughs>Lavroff is then reported by many wire services this time — this is not just a couple of them, saying, you blankety-blank imbecile or you — dummy but with an expletive, right? A heavy-duty expletive thrown in. So I think there is great rage in the Russian command structure in particular against Turkey. And you have to remember in the 19th century there was generally speaking a Russo-Turkish war every generation the last big one was World War I, which included a Russo-Turkish war, which brought down both. But — but in this case I think it would go very, very hard on the Turks, and I have to say in terms of the news agencies that did report the Putin ultimatum to Turkey, these were primarily Iranian, so this was FARS newsagency, right? F-A-R-S, which is sort of semi-official, the Iranian National News Agency (IRNA), which I think is official, and Press TV. I myself on there on the day of the — of the stuff going going down, I was interviewed by Press TV and they said "We have reports that Putin said these things to the Turkish ambassador. What do you think?" I said, "I think that sounds eminently plausible, even though they're going to deny it, but don't expect them to confirm that in public." And then also Al-Manar and Al-Manar is the Hezbollah newsagency, and there's some rather intelligent people there, too. So, you put that together: FARS, Iranian National News Agency,  Press TV, Al-Manar, and then some others around the world, some people in Pakistan and — and so forth. That I think is — that's good enough to say that this is very likely to have happened and when you put this stuff in about the troops in the nondenial-denial and some other things and Lavroff cursing at the Saudis, right? Saudi and Turkey being sort of a strategic block, I think you have to take that very seriously.


BONNIE FAULKNER: Webster Tarpley, thank you very much.