Alex Jones Interviews Lt. Gen. Hamid Gul
Former Head Of Pakistani ISI
Dec. 9, 2008
[This is my own transcript. Please forgive my dull Western ear, and forward any corrections to firstname.lastname@example.org
I have now been through the whole thing at a walk, and I am satisfied that it is accurate with two or three possible exceptions.
Furthermore, I am indebted for many confirmations of uncertainties, numerous corrections which I did not catch, and not a few I could never have guessed, from a certain Uttam Poudel (email@example.com).
Any further comments, corrections or suggestions from any quarter are and will remain most welcome.]
mp3 here for best results, right-click and "Save As " to your hard drive, then play on your favorite player.
Jones: Well, ladies &
gentlemen, out of the gates, we have Gen. Hamid Gul, and of course he was the
head of Pakistani intelligence back in the 1980's, he went on CNN on Sunday night
on one of their international programs and talked about the fact that he
believed 9/11 was an inside job, and that the Mumbai attacks, formerly Bombay,
were also an inside job.
As you know, we have detailed that that was a False Flag attack, carried out by western intelligence, clearly, in India, as a pretext to start World War III between the two nations. There were also calls, the Pakistani government has now said that were officially made, confirmed with the phone records, from the Indian Foreign Ministry, saying "we are going to attack you", attempting to trick the Pakistanis into launching some type of attack, and that almost happened.
And so, for the next thirty minutes I'm very honored to be joined by Gen. Hamid Gul, and General, joining us from Pakistan, thank you so much for coming on with us today.
Hamid Gul: You are welcome.
Alex Jones: Uh, just out of the gates, I was told by your son that you were not happy with the CNN interview, that they edited you. So, you've got the floor, sir. We're not going to edit you. You are live, so tell the world what is really going on.
Gul: Well, at the
moment, we have to look at this human great human tragedy that took place in
Bombay. I sympathize with India; they've been rocked very badly. And
their response was a bit nervous. They want to go to war with Pakistan if
Pakistan does not behave or does not hand over uh, who whoever they
want from us. They have given a list of people.
But I think that there has been a long record of the Indians accusing Pakistan whenever something like this happens, and in the past they have turned out to be every time wrong. Of course Pakistan is willing to cooperate. And I think that is a very good position that President Zardari has taken, that "you provide the evidence and we will try them out; we will arrest them we will put them to trial, and you can come and watch, see, and let the international cameras come and see. And there shall be a transparent, open trial, and if that does not satisfy you, then what else will?"
So, this is the situation where we stand today: there is an ominous threat from India, and America seems to be partly patting them on the back, and asking Pakistan to do whatever India is demanding. Now this is an unfair position, because India is not like America. America demanded from Pakistan back in after th er a, 9/11 to cooperate and hand over anybody that Pakistan could lay their hands on. Seven hundred or so people were caught in Pakistan, they were sent to Guantanamo Bay, to Baghram and to Kandahar jail. And nothing came out Khalid Sheikh Mohammad is the only one who is being tried in that case: all others have been let off.
So, to get innocent people like that, just because you accuse them, and you don't even provide the evidence, you pick them up and shove them in jails, this is not on. I think that this belittles the human values that particularly democracies uphold, and they talk so much about. so I think that Pakistan's offer is good enough, and today Pakistan cracked down on some of the defunct organizations in fact these were banned in the year 2002, immediately after 9/11, but there could be some maverick elements among them who would still I won't rule out, could carry out uhhh [bumper music begins in background] in uh, on their own or in conjunction with some other forces partic that kind of atrocities. But we have to wait and see, how it goes.
Alex Jones: OK, Mr. uh, Mr. Gul, General Hamid Gul, please stay with us. We're gonna break and come back in a long segment, uh, plenty of time for you to break down what's really happening, the serious tensions, uh being, uh uh being risen due to what happened a few weeks ago in India. Please stay with us.
Jones: Reading from Wikipedia,
"General Hamid Gul,
served as director general of Pakistan's Inter Service Intelligence, ISI,
during '87-'89, mainly in the time when Benazir Bhutto was Prime Minister of
Pakistan. He was instrumental in the anti-Soviet support of the mujahideen in
the Afghan War, '79 to '89, a pivotal time during the Cold War, and the estab
" and it goes on. And we have him on line with us. We of
course yesterday played the CNN, uh, TV interview he did that was heavily
edited. This is live, and is not edited. Going back to him
in Pakistan we've tried three different lines, this is the best one we have, we
apologize our audio is not loud to him, is not very audible, and obviously his
audio back to us is very, very broken up. But we nevertheless have him
joining us, we're very thankful.
Uh, sir, continuing, on the CNN program, at least what they edited you to say, you talked about 9/11, the evidence being that nine eleven was an inside job, and the attacks in Bombay, now Mumbai, of a few weeks ago, that the evidence was, it was an inside job. Can you go over the evidence that you believe that these were False Flag events, sir, and why these False Flag events are being staged.
Hamid Gul: Are you talking about 9/11?
Alex Jones: Yes, sir.
Hamid Gul: Well, I have my own reasons, you know, Rod Nordland was the senior reporter here, I think he was based in Islamabad at that time, and he came to me immediately after 9/11, and his version that, uh, that I put out, it was given to the Newsweek, and unfortunately it was blocked, but it appeared on the internet, on the website of the Newsweek. And you can see it, I think it is dated 16th or 17th of September, 2001. [Note: the article is Prejudice In Pakistan: Why Is Islamabad Reluctant To Pressure Neighboring Afghanistan Into Turning Over Osama Bin Laden?, by Rod Nordland, dated 9/14/2001
And in that I had said the same thing, and I still maintain that that's my position. I have following reasons for it:
a. that 9/11 took place on the American soil, not a single person has been caught inside America, even though for doing such a job I think a huge amount of logistic support is required in the area where such operation is carried out.
b. Secondly, the air traffic control, when they saw that four aircraft were changing direction going from east coast to west coast where they were headed, they started traveling in different directions. And it is quite amazing that for a very long period of time the air traffic control did not report this, nor did the US Air Force act in time. If, er, one were to calculate from the first flight, when it took off from Logan, till the first aircraft, and the solitary aircraft that took off was an F16 which took off from Langley, which is CIA headquarters, instead of one of the operational bases. So many of them are available in that area. And then a single aircraft never takes off, because we have been told that whenever the aircraft scramble they scramble in twos. And the time that it took was enormous. It took a hundred and twelve minutes! So a hundred twelve minutes is a very long time in which to react. Was the US Air Force sleeping? And if it was sleeping, which heads will roll?
c. Second [NB: his third point] it was a huge intelligence failure, and no heads have been rolled, nobody has been taken to task, not a single person has resigned for this.
d. Thirdly, the air traffic control should have been rehashed, they should have been turned inside out, but nothing of the sort happened.
e. And finally, how come this is a coincidence that four transponders did not work, and it is, it is not possible the direction is changed and it is not noted?
f. Secondly, the US Air Force eh, has the
ability, because in the past whenever a plane has been hijacked, the record is
that within seven minutes the US aircraft has been on the wing of the hijacked
aircraft. In this case it uh, it did not happen. The US
alert system is so high, and it is so sophisticated, that if a missile was to
take off from Moscow, and were to head toward New York, it takes about eighteen
minutes. And the US Air Force, and the missile system, is supposed to
intercept it within nine minutes that means only Atlantic: around the Pacific
it must stop that missile from coming in.
The system is in place, but it did not work, and nobody tried to question this.
g. Lastly, no inquiry has so far been held formally into the incident, and the whole world has been turned upside down, so many people have been killed, American economy is going into a meltdown, and everything is gone wrong with the world, and yet no formal inquiry has been ordered by the US government. So I really don't know. There are so many questions which hang in the balance.
h. And then to top it all, they say that Atta Mohammed took the training by light aircraft in the army for six months, he could have maneuvered a jumbo 745 uh, 757 from a height where it was traveling that height was 9,000, and it came within seconds to a height of 1000, and then went straight into its target. Now this is not possible for a person who has been trained on a light aircraft to be able to do this.
Alex Jones: Yes, sir.
Hamid Gul: And there is no mention of the second aircraft, and so there are a number of things which remain unanswered.
Alex Jones: Yes, sir.
Hamid Gul: Whenever the journalists come, and visit me here, and I ask them these questions, that "why haven't you taken the answers about this?", and they say that "Patriotic Act comes in the way", and we are not supposed to ask such question".
Jones: General we
are talking to General Hamid Gul, the former head of Pakistani ISI, during the
key period of fighting the Russians, he was also, before he was the head of
ISI, one of the chiefs according to our media, running operations against the
Russians. And of course working with the United States closely, as well
as the Saudi Arabians, and the British. Uh, uh, and if that's incorrect,
General uh, uh, Gul, what are the motives? We have PNAC, with Dick Cheney saying they need a Pearl Harbor event, we have 44,000 US troops massing in Tajikistan and Uzbeekistan in the days before 9/11, we have Bush on September 10, Newsweek reported ordering the launch of attacks the next week [the 44,000 link above is Newsweek, this is MSNBC. Perhaps it was a slip of the tongue; please post the Newsweek link to this if such there be], we have, of course, the buildings being blown up with explosives, and all of the witnesses to that, now the government admits that Building 7 did fall in freefall, was not hit by a plane specifically, sir, motives. Why would the Military Industrial Complex controlling the United States, why would they stage a 9/11 attack?
Gul: Well, I think
there is there's also the Cold War, when the Reaganomics it was known
as, the inflation was very high, and, domestic issues had to be addressed, but,
uh, Bill Clinton, two tenures, they really amassed a lot of money, American economy
went booming, and he left a lot of money, and the hard boys, Cold Warriors,
when they came in they they found that the situation was ready, they had
money and they had resources, and they looked upon, now, the conquest of
the world, for which there was an opportunity window.
The Muslim world was lying prostrate, Russia was not still picking up from the it's foreign position, China was not ready yet, and therefore they looked upon it as an opportunity to go and do the forming. And in this, I am a soldier, and I know that there has to be a single aim, but they mixed up the aims and they have botched up everything. First they said that they would go into such strategic areas where there was no US presence before, as such as the western Asia and South As.. South Asia, where there was no American physical presence, and they wanted it there.
They had to keep the Chinese off from getting into the Middle East, they had to lay their hands on the energy tap of the world, which presently lies in the Middle East, but in future it will be in Central Asia, and so Afghanistan is the gateway to Central Asia, and finally to suppress any resistance, particularly which could threaten the state of Israel.
Now that is where they, instead of pursuing the American objectives, they started pursuing the Israeli objectives, and that is where they went wrong. You have to pick up a single aim, this is the first principle of war, and I don't know why the generals and the politicians of America, they could be so naοve and so ignorant, that they started mixing aims, and they went into this war, without wisdom, without particular preparation, and without the American support behind them.
Because if they had gone to war, and asked for support from the American people, they would have never given this their support. So they had to create a pretext, and this was the pretext that they created.
we're gonna break in a moment, and come back for the final segment.
Perhaps I can get you to stay a little bit longer, because I want you to be
able to speak unedited to the American people and the people of the
world. I want to shift gears into Mumbai, what happened in India.
Clearly the evidence of even the Indian
intelligence chief, as you know, was saying that the that the Indian
government was staging terror attacks on the train, an army captain was caught
doing that and arrested, the chief of anti-terror was threatened, he was killed
that day when it started in Mumbai, now they have caught an anti-terror police officer
giving cell phones to the supposed terrorists that they're saying came from
Pakistan, we know the West is deeply in bed with some of the blocks of the
former mujahideen, uh, can you speak to that?
Hamid Gul: Can you hear me I can't hear you properly, but can you hear me all right?
Alex Jones: Yes, sir, I can hear you. When we come back, we will s we will speak to what happened in India. Did you hear that?
Hamid Gul: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Why they are staging terror attacks there, the evidence of False Flag/Inside
Job in India. So when we return after this quick break [music begins] with the former head of
Pakistani intelligence, uh, General Hamid Gul, joining us from Pakistan.
I am coming to you from Austin, Texas, hence the phone troubles. We'll
work on those, sir, during the break. We will be right back. My
websites of course are InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com.
Stay with us, we'll be right back with this exclusive interview.
[bumper music: Leonard Cohen
Everybody knows the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
. . . .]
Jones: We are back
live. It is Dec. 9th, 2008. Gen. Hamid Gul, one of the most famous
members of the and commanders of Pakistani intelligence, who worked in
with the United States in the whole operation against the Russians was the
commander of those operations is our guest, with us graciously until forty
Uh, General, uh, not wasting any more time, I listed earlier the fact that Indian intelligence captains in the army have been caught in India staging bombings. That's Indian news. Uh, that Indian intelligence and police have been caught giving cell phones to the supposed shooters. The police stood down, and only the anti-terror commanders that had said that India was staging terror, they were killed in the initiation of the attacks in Mumbai. That's some of the evidence of Mumbai being an inside job. Namely, why do you believe Mumbai is a staged event two weeks ago, (A), and (B), what is the motive?
Gul: Well, the
motive is very simple, that, uh, Americans want India to come on board with
them in their War Against Terror, especially when they run out of troops in
Afghanistan. The NATO allies are pulling out, they are dragging their
feet, they are not prepared to fight there, but they want to make it an Indian
cause, and they want nearly 150,000 troops in Afghanistan.
That is one reason where there is an American motive. There is an Israeli motive, which is similar, that the Americans should not pull out of Afghanistan just because they are short of troops, so they must have more troops there. Because if they go away without denuclearizing Pakistan, state of Israel will remain under perpetual danger. So they have an innate fear that Americans may lose heart and pull out of this region, they're already going out of Iraq. And if they were to go out of Afghanistan, Israel this will be an unfinished agenda, and that, eh, Israel will be at the losing end.
So, the NeoCons and the Zionists, they together want to hatch a conspiracy so that Obama gets trapped into a situation where for next four years he keep on sorting out this embroglio.
As far as the ability is concerned, which is the other element, can you imagine that people traveling from Karachi in two rickety boats, they can travel all the way to Bombay and then go into action immediately and fight a battle for seventy-two hours, and there are just ten of them, and in each group there were two? This is impossible. They were carrying so much of munitions with them, and that, uh, that munition lasted till fighting withstood the crack troops of the Indian army for so long.
And you know that in Nariman House, the five Jewish hostages, they were killed by the Indian commandos. They were not killed by these people. So why would the Indian commandos kill them? And Israelis suppressed this information. It initially came out in one of the Indian dail eh, Israeli dailies, but then it was suppressed.
So if you go by the record of the Indian accusations against Pakistan, in the past ten years, uh, 2001 on December 13, there was an attack on the Indian Lok Sabha [lower house of Parliament], and they blamed Pakistan and Lashkar-e-Taiba for it, but it turned out that these were Indian Kashmiris themselves, and because India is committing so much of atrocities in Kashmir, therefore there's a good reason for them that they would carry out something like that.
Then the again in 2006, there was the Samjhota Express case, in which 68 passengers, mostly Pakistanis were killed, and this train was stopped at an obscure railway station in Haryana, and then doors were locked and the train was set on fire, and again this was proclaimed that it was Pakistani Lashkar-e-Taiba, and that they had done it because they wanted to derail the peace process. But, uh, Colonel Purohit, Shrikant Purohit has been caught in it, and there are other Indian officers who are, uh, or were his accomplices, and he has a big net worth they took the RDX from an the Deolali depot, which is a military depot
Alex Jones: the explosives
Gul: so one can say
there is a deep penetration of the militant Hindiu Hindus in military
and intelligence organizations in India.
So in this case, why would they not do that, because they want to again derail this process, and when Obama says that he will mediate on Kashmir, and there is a Kashmiri [music begins] political movement picking up momentum, and in this situation he says that he would, uh, send, uh, Bill Clinton as the mediator. Obviously the militants in India do not want this to happen and they had to preempt it.
So, Pakistan doesn't gain, Pakistani ISI doesn't gain anything from it. The next beneficiary is either the militant Hindu
Alex Jones: Stay there, sir, we have to break.
Hamid Gul: who have their eye on the next election
Alex Jones: we have to break, General
Jones: Well, ladies
and gentlemen, a rare interview, extremely enlightening. We're talking to
the former head of Pakistani intelligence, the ISI. I want to thank Paul
Watson, who we've got on the line. He's gonna pop in with a question or
two. I want to thank, uh, Simon over in the UK for getting us this
number. And I want to thank Aaron for staying up late last night to get
the producing job done to get this interview right here on the GCN Radio
Network. Uh, General, continuing with motive, I have the headline here,
Asserts 'Hoax' War Call Was Real Press Minister fingers Indian High
Commission as source of reports that threatening call was fake".
As you know this was in most of the Pakistani papers. The government has the caller ID and the phone records, that the threatening call, saying that India was going to attack within minutes of the terrorist attacks beginning in Mumbai a few weeks ago, this provocative call within minutes saying India was going to attack Pakistan, attempting to get Pakistan, I guess, to move troops to the border and have a conflict, and the media saying that possible war between the two thermonuclear powers was narrowly averted. Can you speak to that?
indeed. I think the Americans and the Indians both have been very
responsible about it, because Condoleezza Rice's statement in America and in
India when she went and visited Delhi. They were very threatening towards
Pakistan, and it was sort of a dictation that "you have to satisfy
India". Now this is amazing, that Pakistan has to satisfy
India. On what score? Indians have still to come out with the
evidence. And as far as this one man that they have caught, who knows
that this is not a bogey, and that this man was loitering around
somewhere. There're lots of Pakistanis who crossed the border illegally
or legally, and he could have been picked up, and he's a he's become the
front man for singing on those stories.
So one doesn't really know. It's too early to start threatening war against Pakistan because Pakistan is a nuclear country, and if they brandish their power, conventional power, then I can assure you that as a soldier I will say that conventional war, limited war, within the nuclear environment is not possible in the subcontinent.
And if if if it comes to an exchange of nuclear weapons, then this becomes a Third World War. China cannot stay out. Russia will not stay out. Russia is already showing its belligerence towards the America and Europe. And China of course is a very major economic power. They are a nuclear power, and if this thing happens in their back yard they will not accept it.
So this is a very dangerous situation. I think it is playing with the fire. So the whole thing is getting could get out of hand. It is again, as I told you that the part of the unfinished agenda that the NeoCons had in their mind. And they think back now, "well, we carry it out, even though the Americans want a change."
But let's look at what change means. I mean Obama has not too very clearly enunciated what change would be. But one can assume that change means focusing on the domestic issues. There is an economic meltdown, the car industry is going sick, and many other things are happening inside America, the social welfare and the Medicare extra trust.
So as in all these things, there is a need for the new administration to focus entirely on the domestic issues
Alex Jones: well, General
Hamid Gul: and for that it will have to disengage externally.
Jones: General as
you know, in the last three months, before Obama was even elected, he said
Pakistan and Afghanistan would be his main focus. The strikes inside
Pakistan it's clear that his change means what Zbigniew Brzezinski wants, shifting
uh, what the RAND Corporation has said they want, shifting the war out of the
Middle East into Central Asia.
So I believe the change is gonna be these provocations. Look at the NeoCons, with Israeli and NATO-backed forces launching the sneak attack on the Russian held South Ossetia on 8/8/8. So it appears that, uh, they are trying to launch a major uh, larger than a theater war, as the RAND Corporation said a month ago, they want a major new war.
Hamid Gul: Yes, indeed you're right, because this is an old theory, which a geostrategic theory, first put out by MacKinder and then by Mahan, who was an admiral in the US Navy, that this is the rimland, you've got to first control the rimland in Asia before you can strike in the heartland of Asia. So this heartland/rimland thing, I think it tricked into the story
Alex Jones: geopolitical
Gul: it tricked it
tricked into the picture that, if they have a conflict in the rimland, and they
can control it, then it becomes so much easier to go and penetrate into the
But this is really asking too much it uh, as a statement. America is not in a very healthy economic condition. So I think that this is brinkmanship of the highest order, and if they enlarge the area of conflict in this war against terrorism, and if they prolong the period of conflict, then America will definitely lose.
Alex Jones: General
Hamid Gul: Because I know that when you are fighting the irregular fighters, and then the area of conflict is enlarged, let's say you extend it into the tribal areas of Pakistan, or it is pushed into Kashmir as well, so that China can be monitored and watched quite easily, then the area will become larger and the US does simply does not have the troops. And there is not a moral cause strong enough for the American people to be mobilized behind it.
Alex Jones: So that's why they staged
Hamid Gul: So I don't know this is pure madness to be thinking of such things at this time.
Jones: So that's why
they need proxies like India to destabilize the region for the encirclement of
Russia, and of course China, blocking those pipelines.
Now, sir, in the time we've got left, you worked with the United States and Saudi Arabia, with Israel, or at least Pakistan did, fighting the Russian invasion. Uh, of course, if these reports are incorrect, correct me, but you were one of the main commanders helping the mujahideen. You were the head of Pakistani intelligence right at the time you had the victory against the Russians.
It is reported here that al-Qaeda was founded by the new Secretary of Defense Gates and Zbigniew Brzezinski, uh, or, or that they were the Wahabist fighting corps, and that they are now being used to try to bring down the Pakistani government and to try to stage attacks inside India. So can you speak with your particular expertise to that, and then, also the fact that they are now trying to list you as a terrorist, and then thirdly, did you ever meet Osama bin Laden? Is Osama bin Laden dead many years ago of kidney failure, as Benazir Bhutto said?
Gul: Well, uh, I was
actually in charge of operations against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan,
and the Americans were providing the logistic support, and the Saudis were
sharing one half of the budget for this war. And it was a cheap war
because in all uh there was uh ten years that we were fighting the
Russians, we spent not more than five billion dollars out of the American
exchequers. So it was a very cheap war for for the Americans to have
defeated the Russians and rid the whole of the West of this this Red Menace that
they used to call.
So, at that time, Osama bin Laden and his, uh colleagues, they were admired and they were romanticised by the CIA operators. I had never met him then. I had nothing to do with him, because I was only busy training the Afghans. We had to win a war, we had a task on our hands, it was a very big task, and we were so occupied with the training only the Afghans. No other national was trained by the ISI. I can vouch on that. Not a single person, not even a Pakistani was trained by them.
Osama bin Laden was you know, I had never met him, but to the these people used to come and talk glowingly about him. I met Osama bin Laden after my retirement from the army, in 1993 December in Khartoum, and then again in year, uh, 1994 November when I was went I was there invited by a Hassan bin-Turabi to an international conference, and during that conference, Osama invited us to a banquet. And it was all in an open place, and, uh, where there were many other people present. I he struck to me as a p very normal human being, not a bloodthirsty animal that he is being presented by the CIA now.
At that time no conversation between him and me took place. I don't know whether he's living or dead. But so far Ayman Ayman al-Zawahiri has been giving eh, representing him in various interviews of Osama that have been put out.
So one doesn't really know. But the last interview, which was a voice interview, in that the CIA and the other US intelligence agencies authenticated that it was Osama's voice. So one doesn't really know whether he is living or dead.
Alex Jones: Well, sir
Hamid Gul: But even if he is not living, he is now a symbol. Al-Qaeda is a franchise. Whoever created that, and for whatever reason they created, I think it wasn't there until 1996 when he was lodged in Khartoum. Later on he was
Alex Jones: General
Hamid Gul: invited by [later Afghan President] Burhanuddin Rabbani, who is now part of the Northern Alliance in Kabul, and he came over and he set up his headquarters in a place called Tora Bora near Jalalabad. But, uhhh, that's where one started hearing of al-Qaeda and the activities
Alex Jones: Yes.
Hamid Gul: of Osama bin-Laden.
Alex Jones: General
Hamid Gul: And also the fact that his commander was responsible for bringing the bringing the Blackhawk hawk down in the fierce (?) operation in Mogadishu where an American aircraft was brought down by a Stinger, which had probably been supplied in Afghanistan to Afghan mujahideen.
Alex Jones: OK, General
Hamid Gul: Yes
Jones: General, I
need to in the time left here because we've only got a few minutes left with
you here uh, maybe five minutes and then we're going to break and I don't
want to keep you any longer we can perhaps have you back up in the future.
Specifically, though, we know his CIA control name was Tim Osman, we know he was the bagman for a lot of the Saudi money and the Israeli money going in, I know that was compartmentalized and separate from Pakistani intelligence, from what I've read from different perspectives and US intelligence.
So so I believe you there. My whole point here is is that clearly al-Qaeda al-CIAda didn't carry out the attacks of 9/11 as you yourself have said. And bin-Laden in is first interview said that he didn't do it. Then they produced these computer-morphed videos and fake audios that have been checked. And the Intel Center, headed up by Rumsfeld's former lieutenant, the private group was caught putting the same video layer in with the original video. So it's been proven that they're creating these fake videos.
There is no doubt about it, that this video which was put out in November by
George Bush and and said this was Osama bin-Laden, he was a high cheekboned
like the mongoloid features, he wasn't as tall as Osama bin-Laden was.
And one could make clearly make out that this was doctored, this wa had
been created on purpose just to s justify the attack on Afghanistan.
I think there are many things which are going wrong are being done on the behest of the government by the CIA which are not correct. The CIA used to be good when they were working with us. But I don't know what happened thereafter. I think it is a overarching ambition.
Alex Jones: Well, sir
Hamid Gul: or it is the fear that America will lose it's clout. Whatever is the reason. Or it is perhaps the Israeli fear that they are surrounded by a sea of hostile enemies, who could, if the Americans don't, uh, now at this point in time, they don't deliver a fatal blow to all their enemies, then Israel will have a short shelf life, otherwise also because it is an artificial state, that they would, uh, probably not exist, or they would
Alex Jones: General
Hamid Gul: have fi
Alex Jones: General as you know, in the time we have left, they have over four hundred nukes, they have total dominance, no one could attack them with nukes, they have the anti-missile defense systems. I believe it's a red herring that they want to start World War III, uh, for their "safety". It's World War III that will destroy Israel.
Hamid Gul: Yes, indeed, and I think this 2006 September experience, I think, if it is any indicator for them, when they
Alex Jones: Hezbollah
Hamid Gul: went into southern Lebanon and they got such a buffeting at the hands of of Hezbollah, I think they dare not do something like that, because it would mean annihilation of Israel. And in any case this Palestinian question is a very thorny question, and I don't know why the US administration is not addressing it differently
Alex Jones: OK
Hamid Gul: instead of these two different states there should be one Abrahamic state of Palestine.
Alex Jones: General!
Hamid Gul: Because all the three religions which have, uh which claim that they are divine religions they have their origin in eh, in Palestine, and I think something new has been has to be thought about.
Alex Jones: All right
Hamid Gul: But unfortunately Bush administration in its very ad the ad the advent of its tenure, it said that they would sort out this Palestinian issue by creating two states. After eight years we have we have gotten nowhere at all!
Jones: All right
General, we're almost out of time, two final questions, and I'm gonna let you
go, and you can any websites, any books, any materials you'd like to point
people at to see your side of the story, we'd love to see it. Two
questions, let me give 'em both to you and then answer them, please:
#1 why are they trying to, now, list you as a terrorist, (A), when they admittedly worked with you (B) why do they always betray people like Saddam who they worked with and set up.
So (A) why are they trying to now set you up, (B) where do you see the Pakistan/India situation going, do you see the West staging more terror?
Gul: Yes, of I think
they are simply afraid of me because I worked with them, I understand them, I
can measure them up and I talk loudly about it, I mak mince no words, I pil
pull no punches, and they are afraid that I preempt whatever scheming they
do. And I am loud-voiced, there is no doubt about it. And I speak
the truth, they are trying to frame me, there is no truth in it. If they
had anything about me when I applied for a renewal of my VISA to America why
did they not give it to me? Because if they have something, they are
looking around for terrorists, while this terrorist wants to come over and
visit America, nab me, interrogate me, take me to bar, take me to court, do
whatever you like. It only shows that they have a mala fide.
As far as Saddam is concerned, it is a habit, it is a very bad habit. They cultivate friends who become, like Pervez Musharraf, dictators, and then they make use of them, and then they turn upon them and then in fact the nation suffers because of their policies.
And, what was the last part of your question?
Alex Jones: All right, I'm gonna do a s
Hamid Gul: was it in India/Pakistan relations?
Alex Jones: Sir, hold on one moment, General. John
Hamid Gul: Ju
Jones: Ge hold on,
General uh, General, hold on one moment because we've only got a few
minutes left. John, skip this network break. For stations:
I'm skipping, 'cause I'me gonna let him go in three minutes. I don't want
to hold him any longer, but I'm skipping this break, because this is too
Yes sir, I'd like you to answer that question, uh, about what do you think, knowing them, working with the globalists, the New World Order, in the past, when it was still America, before we were totally dominated, what do you think their next moves are probably uh, most probable, (A).
And then, finally, the attacks against the government in Pakistan, uh, using Muslim fronts. Does that appear to be the West trying to destabilize your government? They keep trying to kill the government, they killed Bhutto, they keep bombing government buildings, they keep bombing hotels, it appears the West is using false mujahideen to try to overthrow Pakistan.
Gul: No, Benazir was
not killed by any of the terrorists. She was removed by the Americans,
because she had violated her agreement, because they wanted to keep Pervez
Musharraf there, and he slapped another martial law on Pakistan. So she
had become rebellious, and such a person, who is a popular leader of a third
world country, the head of the largest political party, a woman whom they could
not attack as fundamentalist because she was so westernized, therefore it was
very important for them to remove her, because they have a mischievous plan
which they want to put through.
So, they have installed instead Mr. Zardari, whom they can blackmail very easily, but they have allowed him to keep the powers that of a dictator. And in fact he's the one who's calling all the shots in Pakistan, so is that all Pakistan is already destabilized politically.
Our po um, uh be judicial institution simply does not exist, because the judicial crisis recently dethroned Chief Justice of Pakistan
Alex Jones: Yes who is staging the terror attacks, because they're clearly aimed at the government, or is that the government staging them as a pretext to crack down
Gul: No, no, no
this is because it Lal
Masjid was attacked, and I think that George Bush addressed his nation on
radio immediately after that, said "this was part of our plan in War
Against Terrorism", because they werw suspecting that Pakistan army and
Inter Services Intelligence were not fully cooperating, and they
because they did not consider it was their war, therefore they created this
situation, where the terrorists out of sheer revenge, these is this is
This is a tradition which has nothing to do with Islam. It is the Afghans
holding to this tradition long before they became Muslim, and they are still
carrying it on. When you take action against an Afghan, kill his daughter
or his wife or his sister, he will take revenge no doubt what happens. He
does not behave like a Muslim, or any other entity.
So is, uh, this was a thing which was created. And of course Pakistan is now in a very difficult position. We only have a stable military institution which can control the conditions. And we have an ISI, and but the Americans are almost every day attacking the ISI and attacking the military, saying that this is not under the control of the political parties.
Alex Jones: Sir
Hamid Gul: political powers.
Alex Jones: Sir General
Hamid Gul: But what is political power, when Parliament is sinecure? It does not work, it has no authority at all.
Alex Jones: General, going back to 9/11, Pakistani papers, BBC reported, New York Times reported, $100,000 was reportedly wired by Gen. Mahmood Ahmed, the head of Pakistani intelligence to the lead hijacker, who we know was a US government decoy, trained at US bases, that's Newsweek, AP, Reuters. General Mahmood Ahmed, do you believe he was really controlled by the CIA, did he wire $100,000 to Mohammed Atta?
Hamid Gul: Not at all. Mahmood is a friend of mine. I met him very recently in Lahore, and he categorically denies this. I think this is all disinformation, which has been adopted as a very sophisticated intelligence art.
Alex Jones: So, just to be clear, we're gonna let you go, we're very thankful and respectful of your time, uh, you believe that the bombings and terror attacks and shootings that we've seen in the last few months in Pakistan are because the Predator drones and helicopters are killing weddings, which you always notice it's a wedding that's meant to stir up the people there, because it kills whole families, it's a huge insult, and then of course they blow up NATO cars, of course they then attack the government. Is that what you're saying?
Gul: It is retaliatory,
and they will retaliate. I can tell you that Afghanistan nation is a fact
that over 5,000 years, nobody has won against them, and I think th Americans
cannot win, unless American intention is to stir up a Third World War from this
point I think there's no point in staying in Afghanistan. You should
negotiate with the opposition, which is a national resistance now. It is
no longer Taleban. Specific, it is the Afghan nation.
True to their traditions, they are resisting ferociously.
Alex Jones: General, how long can the Mayor of Kabul stay in power, and isn't this really just about the West controlling the opium?
Hamid Gul: Well, he's the puppet of Kabul, and he will not stay very long. I can assure you that, eh, he's already started showing signs of nervousness. He wants to reach out to the Taleban, but Taleban won't eh, even throw a crumb at him. I can assure you the Taleban, or, any other resistance fighters, they will have nothing to do with
Alex Jones: Well, Reuters is reporting, as you know, every major city is now encircled, and only a few cities are controlled by the US force.
Hamid Gul: I I have no idea, but I think the Right is started coming out, like Robert Kagan's article in the Washington Post on December 2nd, it, eh, echoes what is the [CFR] World At Risk Report. Uh, it is similar. They are focusing on Pakistan, because Pakistan's nuclear capability is undigestible by State of Israel, and by India, therefore there is every
Alex Jones: All right
Hamid Gul: possibility that Pakistan becomes a target.
Alex Jones: In closing in closing, and this is it, and we appreciate all your time this hour's over, two minutes, sir, I know you can't predict the future, but do you see them staging a nuke attack? Do you see them staging more terror attacks? Do you see India sneak attacking? Uh, do you see a more radical government coming in after the staged events? What do you see happening, bad case scenario?
Gul: No, Indians are
not so stupid. I think they are seeing thru the game, and these far
Leftist parties, that is the Left Front, they are called, the Communist party
of India, are very strong. India is slowly turning t'the world of its own
problems. The Shine
India, Shining India, Feel-good India, this is all make believe. I can
tell you that this is a propaganda hype about India. India is in a
miserable state. Their economy is also dwindling. And four hundred
millions are living on less that one dollar a day.
And this is beginning to have an effect because last year alone 108,000 farmers in India committed suicide. And this will not go on. Out of 608 districts of India, 231 are already in turmoil, and mostly under the control of Maoists and the Naxalites.
Alex Jones: So they are collapsing?
Hamid Gul: Yes. So India itself has lots of problems of their own.
right. The GMO cotton made 'em commit suicide, cause it destroyed their
Well, General, General Hamid Gul, thank you so much for joining us. Any websites, any books, any materials you think people should read to learn more?
Hamid Gul: Thank you, sir.
Alex Jones: Uh, any websites, any books, any materials you think people should read to learn more?
Hamid Gul: Oh, I don't have a website, unfortunately, but I think you have a website. They can read all my talk.
Alex Jones: Absolutely. We'll post the audio and a transcript at InfoWars.com. Let me say bye to you, as this hour ends, as we go to break, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll be back with the second hour. Again I want to thank Gen. Hamid Gul. Uh, an amazing exclusive, folks, unedited live.