7/7 London Bombings on
The Kevin Barrett Show
Note: a conference call took place
featuring these same four guests prior to the radio broadcast transcribed
below, with the theme, "Why have Muslims in the West been slow to
support 9/11
and 7/7 Truth initiatives".
Interested parties will find a wider discussion of these same issues. A
transcription is available at http://progressivepress.com/
dox/77chat.html
Please send any corrections or comments to the@proudprimate.com
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The radio broadcast transcribed below aired on NoLiesRadio July 7,
2010. For the convenience of the student, the mp3 with
interruptions removed is posted here
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KEVIN BARRETT:
Welcome to this special 7/7 edition of the Kevin Barrett Show right here on NoLiesRadio.org!
For this special show we've brought on a whole gaggle of guests with expertise in this and related areas thanks to John Leonard, the publisher of Progressive Press. We've got several Progressive Press authors together here today, including Nick Kollerstrom, author of the most hard-hitting book on the 7/7 apparent inside job, and I know we're not supposed to say that in the UK, and I'm going over there next week, so I'm going to be really careful, like everybody warns me, "don't talk about 7/7 in the UK" just like you can't talk about 9/11 in the USA because everybody is so darned traumatized by these events.
I was recently reading Martha Stout's wonderful book The Paranoia Switch [How Terror Rewires Our Brains and Reshapes Our Behavior--and How We Can Reclaim Our Courage] bringing in psychological data on how the entire population of the USA suffered Post Traumatic Stress, and I suppose the same is true of 7/7 over in the USA [sic Barrett means "UK"].
So, if you are British, sit tight, fasten your seatbelt, cover your ears, or turn off the radio if you must. But if you can summon up the courage to face the truth, in the long run it will be better for you.
Well, this show features myself I said, I am a Progressive Press author myself, Kevin Barrett, author of Truth Jihad [My Epic Struggle Against the 9/11 Big Lie], a humorous autobiographical take on 9/11 and 9/11 activism.
We're also bringing on 7/7 expert Nick Kollerstrom, and David Livingstone, and author who I've a bit read recently, fascinating stuff on Terrorism and the Illuminati: [A Three Thousand Year History], the political manipulation of Islam and related issues. He is, I believe, a British Muslim [ed. note: he is Canadian], he's been Muslim since about as long as I have. John Leonard is also a Muslim, by the way. Ohp! You're out of the closet now, John!
And then we're also bringing on a new Progressive Press author, Dave Aossey.
And, without further ado, let's just go ahead and have John bring up a little bit about his authors and why he chose these authors and why what they have to say is relevant to today's 7/7 London bombings anniversary radio special. John Leonard, welcome to The Kevin Barrett Show.
JOHN LEONARD:
Hi, Kevin. Well, we all agree, pretty much, that this False Flag operation is may be a major link pin lynch pin in how they keep the wars going, which is how they extend their hegemony all over the world, how they finance their corruption and all that. So, 9/11 we really thought we had a kind of a silver bullet to blow them away, but we've found that people were not receptive to it because it didn't sit with their world view as you mentioned. It's a traumatic thing to change your worldview, to challenge your worldview, to put it upside down. So, people, rather than, uh, facing that buildings don't fall straight down, they'll keep their worldview standing up.
The 7/7 is probably not as apprec iated in the United States, but it was the lead-in to Nick was saying, that on 7/21 they had a kind of a phantom terror bombing follow-up, and that was the same day that the urged that the Congress the House of Reps to continue the Patriot Act, without the sunset clauses, and that led into the Thought Control Act, the Homegrown Violent Radicalization Act.
So, I think that the False Flag and the Counter-Gang may be a little bit less well known tactics are the two that they really use in a pinch to get the control over their rivals.
KEVIN BARRETT:
OK, so tell us something about our authors on the air, John.
JOHN LEONARD:
Well, Nick wrote the 7/7 book; he's been trying to get he's been trying to get some coverage from the UK but none at all from Muslim media. Kevin we know. Dave Aossey is writing a book that will be gonna try and make it the next Shell Game. But it's uh well, we're gonna get a chance to talk about the book. It's called Instruments of the State. It's kind of an action spy thriller. And Dave Livingstone is a Canadian Muslim, and as you mentioned he's done this 3000-year history of terrorism and the Illuminati, and his thesis is that the British and the Illuminati before that created the Saudis and the Wahabis to infiltrate Islam, to distort it into so that Muslims have only two choices in the West, they're either gonna be in this apolitical Salafi version which is just pray and keep your nose down and sort of be modest, moderate to reactionary; and the other is the jihadist rhetoric, which makes a good foil, makes the false flags credible. They only have those two choices.
KEVIN BARRETT:
Yeah, but, let's bring David Livingstone on to elaborate on that. David, I've been reading a little bit about your book about the hijacking of Islam. It's fascinating stuff, and I think most of your information is right on. I guess my overall question though, would be that, "To what extent are you positing the various kinds of events that you trace, the revival of Islam through the various Salafist currents and reformers, Muhammad Abduh, Hassan al-Banna, the Muslim Brotherhood, and on and on and on. Are these groups really all actors or stage managed puppets in a master conspiracy? That strikes me as a little paranoid. Couldn't it be just a matter of "friend friend enemy of my friend is my enemy" [ed. note: Barrett was searching for the expression "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"] , and so on. I mean the Muslim Brotherhood, they weren't Nazis, but, you know, they were colonized by the British, so of course they helped the Germans, who were the British's enemy of the British this is just what everybody does in politics, right?
DAVID LIVINGSTONE:
Well, you know, it's uh it goes a lot deeper than that. And I've struggled to understand what a person like bin Ladin could be, how you know, how could a person who supposedly expresses so much animosity towards the West be an agent? But the fact is that there's and the Ayatollah is another example the fact is that there's this man called Jamal Afghani, who's the founder of the Salafi movement, and he's really looking at his life to really see how these guys are created.
And this was a guy he was a Shia from Iran, possibly an Ismaili, but he pretended to be a Sunni. And first was busy in Afghanistan, got kicked out of there, went to Turkey, got kicked out of there, and ended up in Egypt, working for the British. And where it gets really, really convoluted is the fact that he was the Grand Master the, uh of what's called the Eastern Star Lodge of Egyptian modern Egyptian Freemasonry.
But's more importantly is that all the leading occultists of what's called the Occult Revival of the late 19th Century, around groups like the English Rosicrucians, Egyptian Rite Freemasonry, Asiatic Brz sorry, Asiatic Brethren, all flocked to Egypt basically to study under Afghani. And because he supposedly represented he was supposedly the head of an old Gnostic tradition that had survived secretly in Egypt before since the time of the Templars. Yet this is the basis of Scottish Rite Freemasonry which they were trying to build the legend of. And the basis of Scottish Rite Freemasonry is that when the Templars were in the Holy Land they made contact with a number of Eastern Mystics. And these Eastern Mystics represented the Ismaili tradition of Egypt.
So these modern Egyptian Masons were supposedly, you know, descendents of this early Gnostic tradition. So Gnostic being that they are not Muslim. Islam for the maybe in the lower ranks they are Muslim, but as you move up the ladder of this indoctrination and initiation process that you eventually discard various layers of your belief until you accept the Luciferian Doctrine.
So that's the basis of what became the Muslim Brotherhood. And the Muslim Brotherhood grew out of this very important nexus between Egyptian Fremasonry and the burgeoning Occult Revival in Europe. And after the Occult Revival, specifically all the characters it produced, first of all the Golden Dawn, which evolved into Aleister Crowley's OTO
KEVIN BARRETT:
Whoh!
DAVID LIVINGSTONE:
and Aleister Crowley's OTO evolved into the Nazis.
So the relationship is intricate, and it's idealogical.
KEVIN BARRETT:
It's and the question I think would be, to what extent is it really all under some sinister control, or do we just have a whole bunch of people, y'know, dabbling in to romantic occultism in ways that are really chaotic and that bump off each other sometimes but aren't
DAVID LIVINGSTONE:
Kevin, you
KEVIN BARRETT:
really a sinister master plan.
DAVID LIVINGSTONE:
Kevin, you know the history of
how the Saudis and the Wahabis got started: they were financed by the British
in the 18th Century.
KEVIN BARRETT:
Well, that's another part of your book. Why don't you tell us about the origin of the Wahhabi movement, David?
DAVID LIVINGSTONE:
Well, the Wahhabi movement, it seems that there's it was created by the British through a spy named Hempher. There's a well known a notorious memoir on the internet called "The Memoirs Of Mr. Hempher [The British Spy To The Middle East]"
JOHN LEONARD:
Or Humphrey
DAVID LIVINGSTONE:
Hemp yeah. It was probably mistranslated. Uh, there's a so some people doubt the truth of this memoir, but there's another the same scenario was mentioned in a Turkish work of the late eighteen hundreds, which makes it the same, the same person. And, it basically makes sense, because the Wahhabi movement is a huge anomaly. Uh, y'know, what is forgotten today and this is how the Wahhabis are successful, is they basically insinuate themselves into the Muslim community by pretending that they're Orthodox. But a hundred years ago 'scuse me, a hundred and fifty years ago, they were fought against by the Ottoman Sultan, who basically recognized that he had to suppress the movement. But I mean they were [laughs] That they were radical is an understatement! Wahhab Wahhab, the founder of the movement, declared that everybody from him to the generation of what were called the "sellout" basically only the first generations followed the Prophet have fallen into apostasy. So between him and the earliest followers of Islam, the entire Muslim world, y'know, how many millions of Muslims must have existed for eight hundred years up until that time, were non-Muslims, they were Kafirs, they were apostates.
So he declared that it was necessary to fight against them, because they had fallen into what is called jailia, which is the equivalent of the Prophet's time of fighting against the pagans. So he began jihad against the Muslim world, beginning in the peninsula
JOHN LEONARD:
So you can see, Kevin, what a what a perfect provocation that is, to assert something like that
KEVIN BARRETT:
Well, you're right, uh David you make a good point, about the Wahhabi movement initiating this kind of movement we've seen more and more of, where these extremist radical elements, usually very tiny elements in the world Islamic community feel they're allowed to attack their fellow Muslims in fact they're ordered to attack their fellow Muslims
JOHN LEONARD:
Kevin, there's an interesting parallel to the situation with Protestantism. Uh, Tarpley claims that the Venetians actually started with they were the people behind Calvin and Luther, and that was the same thing, go back to the Bible, and of course the target was, was the church itself as an institution, as a political institution, Spain as a rival power, the Venetians rising up against Spain, so they use religion and they break up religion, and their ultimate goal is to destroy religion as David Livingstone will tell you to set up this secular Luciferian ideology, so, I mean, it's been done in Europe, and all these religious wars: people always blame wars on religion, but that religion was just a pretext that was used to create these wars.
KEVIN BARRETT:
In terms of today's situation, though, David, it occurs to me that the vast majority of Salafi people, like the scholar Tariq Ramadan who recently came to the ISNA convention we won't get into what was all happening there! Such people believe in reviving Islam, and to some extent modernizing it, and renewing ishtihad for individual jurisprudence in order to not necessarily fall into one of the four classic schools of law, or five if you count the Shi'ite. So these people, actually their discourse is not the same as these tiny splinter groups that are urging Muslims to go crazy and blow things up and attack their fellow Muslims and everybody is a non-Muslim who should be killed, even the Muslims those people, like Takfir wal-Hijra, those are very tiny groups, even smaller than al-Qaeda, then you have the broad mainstream of Salafi groups who are actually quite sensible. You don't have to agree with them, you may prefer to stay with a traditional madhab or Law School. Doesn't it serve the interests of those who would divide and conquer Islam to attack such perfectly sensible people, rather than to work with them against the genuine crazies?
DAVID LIVINGSTONE:
No, it's like it's like JP said, they are created in two factions. So you have the moderates and the extremists.
KEVIN BARRETT:
Exactly, so so the way to beat that is rather than attack
DAVID LIVINGSTONE:
The the real, the real original point in creating the Salafi movement 'cause what happened is that the Salafi movement was created with Afghani the Mason in Egypt. And it didn't really begin to merge with the Wahh with Wahhabism until Rashid Rida. This is when this is when the two movements starts to merge, so that today, when Saudi Arabia is seen as the spearhead of the spearhead of the Sella community(??). But also how that happened is when Nasser cracked because the Muslim Brotherhood tried to assassinate him, so he cracked down on the organization. So when that happened because at this point the CIA was in control of the Muslim Brotherhood. Prior to that it had been the Nazis. And there's many other intelligence organizations that maintained control of the Muslim Brotherhood. And what they did is that, when Nasser was beginning his crackdown, they had many of them transferred to Saudi Arabia, principally Mohammed Qutb, who is the brother of Said Qutb. And that's how bin Ladin became friends with befriended Mohammed Qutb and became affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood.
So since then there's been this marriage between the Saudi state and the Muslim Brotherhood. Today they claim that they like to blame the Muslim Brotherhood for the radicalization of the country. But the fact is, when the Americans wanted to in fact this was the Bernard Lewis plan and the um Brzezinski's Arc of Crisis, they wanted to when they wanted to confront the Soviet Union, the plan was to create a band of to ignite a band of Islamic fundamentalism in Central Asia as a bulwark, so who does the CIA turn to? The Muslim Brotherhood. And the way this was orchestrated was by all financed by Saudi Arabia. [???] It was dollar for dollar.
JOHN LEONARD:
And the first Sheikh Saud was financed by militarily by the British against the Turks.
DAVID LIVINGSTONE:
Right.
JOHN LEONARD:
So so this is the point
KEVIN BARRETT:
Right, right, but this is garden variety . . .
DAVID LIVINGSTONE:
So so this is the point: so what they were doing was they were financing they were financing the Muslim Brotherhood in Afghanistan, which is basically a CIA organization to confront the Soviet Union. So that was the that's the radical end. But the point is originally, the point of Salafism, and basically Salafism or any what are called "revivalist movements" that emerged in the late 1800's across the Islamic world, principally in areas of British control, so in Egypt, mainly, and India and Pakistan, you it's you have this basis in Wahhabism, or also in affiliation with Intaimia [intima watani?] and the the plan, the goal is to estrange the Islamic community from their classical tradition. And that's the basis of Wahhabism and Salafism. So in our time, yes, that is precisely the point. You know that Muslims are forced into one choice or the other, so you have all these Salafis who are devoted to the Salafi cause, but they have to show themselves as rejecting the extremist fringe. So they're forced into the other extreme.
JOHN LEONARD:
Beh oh-
DAVID LIVINGSTONE:
Basically the purpose is to suppress criticism of the Saudi state, largely, and that extends across the world, because the Saudis are so powerful, largely in the UK, the US and Canada, where they control the majority of the mosques. And what that does is it creates so they create this apolitical Islam, where, where we don't talk about politics, it's not necessary like JB says,
JOHN LEONARD:
Right
DAVID LIVINGSTONE:
concentrate on prayer, where you put your hands, how high your pant-hems are, and things like that.
JOHN LEONARD:
Kevin, you, me, and Nick have the same problem. Why can't we get our not get our books into Islamic bookstores, or we can't find an Islamic distributor? And we've found, you know, you go, you look for some company on the internet, they're just doing Dawa and the prayer books, and you cannot talk to them! They have there's no social aspect to their Islam. And as I'm understanding it, correct me if I'm wrong, the Salafism is that side of it.
KEVIN BARRETT:
I don't I don't think that's necessarily true. See, I think the Salafists are people who want they want to renew and modernize the faith by going straight back to the source, sort of like the Protestants. And within that group of people, just like the Protestants, you have ev-ery different sort of tendency and every different sort of person. Within the Protestants we have everything from the Bible thumpers of Alabama who want to go out and burn everybody who doesn't think like them to the Unitarians who agree with us that Allah is one. You know? So I think that it really oversimplifies, and guilt by associate, you know, that one group has contacts with such and such an intelligence agency for such and such a purpose. Well, of course they did! Anybody that wanted to get rid of the Russians, who were infinitely worse than anybody else over there, of course they are gonna work with the Americans.
JOHN LEONARD:
Kevin
KEVIN BARRETT:
Likewise, if you're gonna try to push the British out of the Middle East, of course you're gonna work with the Germans, the enemies of the British.
JOHN LEONARD:
But I'm looking this up on Wikipedia, recognizing my ignorance about it. And the end of the first paragraph says, "Salafism has grown to prominence ever since the First Saudi State captured Mecca and Medina in 1803." So, I mean, that's Wikipedia.
KEVIN BARRETT:
Yeah, those are its historical roots, of course, But given the situation we have now, which is really what's important, I think, we need to try to help these Muslims of all stripes to become more politically aware, to find some common ground and especially try to find a way to counter this War on Islam, which I think we all agree has been launched with these False Flag terror events of 9/11 and 7/7.
JOHN LEONARD:
Yeah, well one thing that David Livingstone has made me closer to accepting is that the Saudis are the fourth leg of the Zionist access Axis. You have to remember, when we first came out with The War on Freedom: [How and Why America was Attacked, September 11, 2001], my first book on 9/11, I was wondering why it was banned in Saudi Arabia. At one point it showed on Amazon, it was the #1 seller best seller in Kuwait. well, that was Saudis that had to go over to Kuwait to buy it, right?
KEVIN BARRETT:
Uh-huh.
JOHN LEONARD:
So, the Saudis facilitated the false passports and the false identities for the patsies. They were in on it in some way or form.
KEVIN BARRETT:
Absolutely. Some of them were
DAVID LIVINGSTONE:
They've been funding CIA covert operations since the Oil Crisis.
JOHN LEONARD:
This is something you don't like to accept because it's terrible. It means like, all the oil money, all the influence in the Islamic world is in the wrong hands. This is something I don't like to face, but I'm afraid it's the horrible truth.
KEVIN BARRETT:
Well, I think most Muslims realize it. That's why most Muslims I think, including Arab Muslims are fed up with the kind of leadership they've got, especially in the biggest US/Zionist puppet states, Mubarak's Egypt, and the Saud family's fiefdom in Saudi Arabia. So I don't think that's controversial. I think these historical claims would be seen as perhaps overly general. But it's again, your book is very very readable, David, and I urge people to and our fellow Muslims to read it and respond to it thoughtfully, critically, not too polemically, and with it to try to forge the kind of sensible Muslim unity against this War on Islam.
Speaking of the War on Islam, this is July the Seventh, the anniversary of the London Bombings, and Nick Kollerstrom
To be continued